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OK, so this wasn't to become a mud slinging contest? So why make it one? Let's cut the crap for one moment, by reading your message, it is clear to me that you continue to blame Amir for you not being an administrator in the WhatsApp group, that is what all this boils down to. Amir is a big boy and can argue his own corner, but you have done here exactly what you did in game 99 Jay. You have made a beeline for one or 2 managers just like before, just when you believe they have a good standing in the game.
Let me remind you, Amir wasn't the only one in the discord group, You were more than happy to get involved with dissecting match tactics and if you remember rightly, even tried claiming victories because of any advice you had given (champions league ring any bells? Bit of a common theme here?) Yet when you received any advice "that was dad's idea".

Game 117 and 119 are history. Why do you feel that 117 is relevant and 119 is not? Is it the same belief that the opinions of division 4 managers are not relevant and then have a good laugh about it and think I wouldn't know? Is this how you treat all of your friends? I can only assume the answer is yes, especially having heard you go on a podcast aired to the whole community and attempt to discredit 2 of your "friends" one of which has stood by you over a long period of time, yet you need to treat him that way? Ask yourself, are these the actions of a real friend? Or are these the actions of someone so desperate to be respected in a GAME, that he is willing to drag down whoever he feels is a threat to him? Also, what's all this talk of an entourage? People stand up for what is right, not because of an influence one may be perceived to have over another, like I have read above.

As for talking you out of quitting, let me jog your memory, if it wasn't for me you wouldn't have been on discord at all as I taught you how to use it, and what was the first thing you did? Try to become an administrator. What's with the craving for power in this game?
If you are having minimal contact with other managers point the finger at yourself, just like I am. Basically for the whole of 2022 I have removed myself from almost all contact with managers in the game, why? Life. Life gets tough, and I'm the first to admit it has brought me to my knees this year, but I dont point the finger at Martin, Karlos or Amir to name a few.... (sorry Terry, its all about levels) What I am saying is, take responsibility for your own actions. I remember not playing this game for a period, during this period where were you? No calls, no texts, nothing... and you call yourself a friend? You even admitted to being a bad friend during this time. Please remember, for every stone thrown there are multiple coming back at you.

You list the things you have done within the game, for example the rule book, helping with players, countries, might I be as bold as to say that you have tried to involve yourself too much, and believe that you became more than just a game player? Is this what has lead to you demanding respect on more than one occasion?

All this trying to discredit others has to stop, as I personally believe it is all to aid your own standing within a GAME. I told you before, your actions in 121 have lead to me losing the respect I have/had for you. You chose to continue your relentless pursuit for respect, yet you are unable to see that by doing this you are losing the respect you are desperately seeking.

May I also suggest that you feel marginalised from the game for multiple reasons. Firstly as stated above, your relentless pursuit for respect. Could it be that managers help you by providing you with a match report here or there for you not to repay the favour? Could it be that deals between you and other teams for below average players have gone for max or near max cash? It might be that your attempts to join a groups banter were actually attacks on people? You know and have admitted yourself that you "drop a grenade then leave" all to come back and play the victim card. Could it be the latest WhatsApp group you created with you and new managers? Let me add in there your repeated attempts to be an administrator in game 122 only to receive the very same treatment that you dished out in a prior game?

It would serve you and your dad well to point the finger at yourselves, look in the mirror and judge your own actions. You won't because you are unable to admit any wrongdoing on any level. Maybe read the video I sent you of the chat between yourself, Terry and I. Maybe this will serve as a reminder of how stubborn you have become, that you are unable to admit what is blatently obvious in the eyes of many.

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St Neots 123
Flamengo 124

Just to add a correction, as I hadn’t planned on getting involved In Jay’s charade. But it was ME that introduced proboards forums to UE long before you joined UE Jay. I think a lot of managers in UE at that time who are here today could prob confirm this so you ain’t really got a leg to stand on. In actual fact the first ever UE proboard forum was game 78 by me around the year 2002 a rough guess and I got the idea from me scouring the net at the time looking for a way to make my own UE Club website. Instead we chose to introduce a club thread on the forum shortly after.

Just a correction.

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Game 123 (EFG) - Bayern Munich
Game 123 (EFG) - Notts County
Game 124 (HFG) - Al Nassr

Matthew I am referring to the first forum where Ben and Justin had accounts and admin responsibilities. I am not saying I created the first ue forum!

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Oriente Petrolero - Game 124

Besiktas - Game 122

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I personally think this has got out of hand.

Jay & Don- Apologise for being naughty cheaters who try and and take advantage of the newbies and mentally retarded.

Wario- Say sorry for trying to nosh Jay off when he came to yours for a kebab. No means no.

Lets put this whole sorry situation behind us.

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BARCELONA 122

Gents, I would encourage everyone to just stop now. It's becoming uncomfortable to read and the entire episode is unnecessary. The thread is a dumpster fire.

Whatever Jay's done in the past, regarding the game, has been dealt with by Ben how Ben sees fit. That should be an end of it. Everything beyond the game, the comments on friendship and families, have no place here and have turned this thread into one of the sorriest things I've seen in ~30 years of PBM gaming.

Everyone involved, from Jay to Amir to Terry to Martin to Nathan et al, are guys I respect and have enjoyed many a chat with since returning to UE in G121. I've found you all to be reasonable, logical, decent people enjoying a hobby together (complete with a little banter), never had any issue with anyone in the last few years. But this thread, good grief, it's none of these things. I've come to expect better from everyone but, whilst some might enjoy the drama and so on from this thread, I just find it disappointing and would welcome an end to it.

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2002 was the year I joined, was game 29 lol

Think it was game 60 something when the first forum of some sort was about

Those where the days

Steve,

You are a gentleman and I have always respected your opinion.

This is exactly how I knew the situation would play out, where that one person would come out with all sorts of bullets creating a complete sandstorm, turning it into what everyone else would think is mudslinging fight.

Far from a mudslinging fight, when is it wrong to outline that someone is not happy with another mans conduct. That someone has been spoken to numerous times by numerous people privately, been caught numerous times - some by the powers that be, some by others and yes punishments have been made however just because a punishment has been made that said person has shown no remorse, gone round saying it was a "task of appeasement to shut the complainant up".

So, if I and others are simply not happy with said person, been addressed with said person, that said person has also been addressed by the powers that be, and still carries on. I think people have a right to say enough is enough.

He has not been asked to be kicked from the game, he has been asked simply to be brought to account, to show some remorse for his actions, and to play the game fairly. That is not much to ask for at all.

Until that happens and everyone is satisfied he should be no where near new managers again not much to ask for especially given the things he has done.

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Getafe 117
Juventus 118
Macclesfield 120
Manchester City 121

I've just got into the office and there are a lot of emails to get through.

I haven't read all of this thread yet (I will), but it doesn't seem to be anything positive or productive, and will be locked.

If any managers have issues with this, or want to email me about what has happened in this thread feel free to do so.

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The voice of Ultimate Europe...

I think Steve has summed this up well.

Threads like these can often spread bad feeling and negativity more than anything else. It's bad for the game, and I imagine bad for the mental health of those involved.

If someone has a issue with something someone has done in the game, email the office rather than bring it up on here. Especially when I'm on holiday and am not keeping an eye on what is happening on the forum.

It's inevitable in a game like this that some managers will not always get on, will disagree or be unhappy with how some managers behaved, or handled certain situations. If you feel that way about another manager I recommend not interacting with them. Bringing up events from the recent or distant past to justify yourself, score points, sling mud, or whatever, rarely achieves anything good.

I'm going to write this off a discussion that got out of hand, and abrupt return to work after 2 weeks of beaches and ice cream.

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The voice of Ultimate Europe...